Consumer Reports blasts the MP3

Mike Leung of Consumer Reports did a post on his blog about the MP3 and ignorantly tore it apart. 

 

Leung states "I still feel less confident riding [the MP3] than a motorcycle. Plus it is less comfortable, agile, and entertaining than a motorcycle..."  

 

Well, it isn't a motorcycle.  Perhaps that's why it seems different.  I would argue that a scooter...even a hoss like the MP3 is just as agile or more agile than a motorcycle.  And since we're in the habit of comparing apples to oranges today, I think a maxi scooter like the MP3 (or my Yamaha Majesty) blows a motorcycle out of the water in entertainment value.

 

Mr. Leung goes on to say "I found riding on local roads more aggravating due to the constant need to shuffle forward to get my feet on the ground. This is all very different than the Can-Am Spyder, which supported itself fully all the time and even had a reverse gear."

 

So he starts by apples to oranges, and now its apples to bowling balls?  This can't be something that is actually connected with Consumer Reports, can it??  Mike admits he is a shorter fellow.  Perhaps his discomfort and lack of satisfaction would be the same with a unicycle or a 4X4 monster truck?  I man comfortable on a cruiser might not be comfortable on a sport bike either, so it make most of his observations mainly ridiculous.  And please everyone...let's just not compare the Spyder (which is more like a open-top, one-seater car than a scooter) to anything like a scooter.  Its not.  There is no step-through design on the Spyder.  It is monsterous in size.  And there is a reason it has a reverse gear...because all cars need a reverse gear.  

 

"...it still wasn't nearly as fun or reassuring as being on a motorcycle."

 

For Leung, this is true.  I know many who ride MP3's that would argue this point with him.

 

"On our test track, I found the center stand scraped on the ground when leaning, making me nervous each time I heard it."

 

Oh for Pete's sake.  Let's complain about wind noise, no air conditioning, or no revers....oh wait.  He already did that.  The problem here is that Consumer Reports chose the wrong guy to evaluate this machine.  It sounds like he made up his mind before, and that was based primarily on the discomfort associated with his inseam.

 

His full idiotic article is located at:  http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/12/one-more-ride-piaggio-mp3-scooter.html

 

One last thing: Mike, you should practice ATGATT. Kahkis won't help you in a 'test track' accident.

Contenders for Next Year - Shoei Multitech

Our next contender for 2010 is the Shoei Multitech modular. Sure, it
doesn't come in wicked graphics, but that leaves the helmet open to
individualization via reflective stickers which I am prone to adding.
What is does have, is the lazy ease of a modular, plus these awesome
features:

- Removable Cheekpads
- Lightweight, Advanced Integrated Matrix (AIM) Shell
- CX-1V shield
- Preset shield opening lever with locking mechanism
- Integrated breath guard [!]
- Chin curtain [!]
- Neck outlet
- 3D Comfort liner
- Adjustable upper vent
- Quick release base plate system
- Cheek pad slits for eyeglasses [!]
- Shell integrated spoiler
- Sleek and aerodynamic design and combined with strict manufacturing
tolerances reduce turbulence and wind noise [!]

So we have the anti-fog of a breath guard, plus the lever locking
mechanism. You have the anti-noise features of the chin curtain, and
the aerodynamics designed for just that purpose. You have the added
feature of cheek pad slits for eyeglasses which should come in very
handy, but I'm not sure how much that would affect comfort. This bad
boy only comes in black for me. The red color is a "wine" and I'm not
having that. The price is a bit more...four and a quarter Franklins
on this one. Besides the price, it bothers me that the site I'm using
to compare (jafrum.com) does not list "5 year warranty" on this beast.
I will definately research that fact on Shoei before I decide. If it
doesn't come with a good warranty (perhaps too many moving parts to
deal with) then I might decide for the RF-1000...

Contenders for Next Year - Shoei RF-1000

This past year, I spent some good money at Cycle Gear for a modular
helmet. I have not loved the KBC modular that the bloke at CG sold
me. It has been comfortable, but slides around a little. It has been
louder than what I wanted, it fogs easily, and the shield is loose and
wobbly (and this is after replacement of shield itself and the little
side gear bits). It does not lock into that 1/4 inch opening that
allows you to defog but not eat rain. It has been easy-on-easy-off,
but for what I paid, I am fairly disappointed.

The first helmet I consider for (hopefully) the next many years is the
Shoei RF-1000. I love the features it has:

- Aerodynamic Shell Design through thorough wind tunnel and rider testing
- Greatly reduced rider fatigue and increased performance
- Semi-Dual EPS Liner System for effective ventilation
- Lightweight AIM+ Construction
- Anti-fog system [!]
- Removable Cheek pads available in different sizes for a custom fit [!]
- Removable/Replaceable chin strap
- Standard Chin-Strap clip
- CX-1V Shield and Lock System
- Face Shield De-fogging vent [!]
- Shield is Scratch Resistant
- Shield offers optical clarity and also protects from UV A & B rays
- Quick Release Base Plate System allows for tool-less shield replacement
- Preset Shield Opening Lever With Locking Mechanism
- Aero Wing Spoiler
- Chin Curtain [!]
- Breath Guard [!]
- 5 Year Shoei Warranty [!]

I really like the anti-fog measures on this helmet. It has the
de-fogging vent, the breath guard, and then if all that doesn't get
it, you can use the shield lock system to lock it into that 1/4 inch
groove to get just the right amount of air. All the venting will help
tons in the summer, and the 5 year warranty is awesome. To boot, it
comes in a mother of a graphic, the Strife TC1, which features my
favorite colors (red, and black) and an evil looking dragon!!!! The
only thing that bothers me is it's not a modular. The price on this
beauty is a little over three Ben Franklins. That is not ungodly more
than what I paid for the KBC.

Vespa South Africa has launched a stretch scooter.

This thing is just not right. The folks in Asian hard-core scooter
lands like Taiwan already ride like seven people and two slaughtered
hogs on a scoot. I wonder if this would be equivalent of a Scoobus.
I bet I get a lot of hits for the words Asian hard-core...

Every single time!

Every time I end up having to take the cage to work, it ends up sunny and warm! This is why I generally ride to work unless it is rain, snow, or ice. Ask just about any scooterist and they will tell you...driving a cage in nice weather just completely sucks the life right out of you...

Dear Scooter-Santa

Dear Scooter-Santa,

 

I have been very good this year.  I went to the WKRP Scooter Rally in Cincinnatti.  It was a lot of fun and I got to ride up with some good folks, and met many more nice people while I was there.  I did the Iron Butt Association Saddle-Sore 1000 Mile ride, completed it with all documentation, and I am now a proud member (#387788).  I also went to the Gasoline Rally in Indianapolis.  I rode with, and met up with a lot of great people there too.  The singular exception being the tall dyed blond guy with the leather trench coat from the George Lucas Scooter Club or whatever it was.  He was an a-hole...  I was also happy to ride to Vonore Tennessee with my new scooter-pal Vince so we could ride US-129 and "slay the dragon".  I have also been good this year by trying to keep the Louisville Scooter Group running, and providing opportunity for the scooterists of Louisville and Kentuckiana to group ride if they want.  It has been a labor of love, but a labor nonetheless.  I have really enjoyed the friendships I have made in the Louisville area with other scooterists.  There are a bunch of good people, many who I have known and ridden with for two years now.  Scooter-Santa, they especially, are good folk, and deserve something nice under the tree.  I appreciate each yard of every mile we've shared together.

 

So I guess what I'm saying is, since I have been very good this year, here's my list:

• a set of black Cortech saddlebags for when I go to rallies or travel
• a Givi or Yamaha trunk (with attachment plates, etc.)
• a new Garmin GPS
• a communication system so I can speak with other riders (or my passenger), use my cell, play music, hear the GPS
• a set of electric glove liners, or gloves
• a Power Trip Dakota II Jacket
• a SPOT tracker
• an Arai Vector full face helmet
• a new pair of summer gloves
• highway pegs
• Louisville Scooter Group patches
• a new pair of riding boots

Ok Scooter-Santa.  I'm not going to BS you.  I probably have not been THIS good.  I just wanted to give you plenty to pick from.

 

Merry Christmas to you, and all Scooterists (even if you're not in the Kentuckiana area)

[and thanks to Ms. Becky for sending the cool picture of you!]

 

Kelly

 

 

 

 

 

 

Christmas Shopping with Kat

I am hoping to get some Christmas shopping done this weekend with my girlfriwnd Kathy. If you see us, wave and honk!!

Not the best weather for scootin...

Today it was overcast in the morning, but not too cold-it was only in the 40's! I thought that even though they were calling for some rain later in the day, that I would still ride to work. The ride in was not bad, and when I got there, I put the cover on Lois, which almost always insures that it will not rain. Well...when I got out about 5:30pm, it was pouring! I had my chaps and my jacket liner (the one that the zipper has lost a couple teeth on and is getting a little wonky). I was about 85% covered. I was supposed to go over to my girlfriend Kathy's, but I went straight home instead, got out of my wet motorcycle gear and switched into my cage. My pants were wet in such a way that made it look like I'd lost control of my bladder, but other than that, no biggie. I missed riding this weekend due to holiday stuff and less than happy temperatures, and missed yesterday because it snowed some. In retrospect, since the snow wasnt on the street, I probably would have done better riding yesterday and caging today! I can deal with cold on the bike. Pouring rain and either snow or ice on the road usually does me in. I can live with getting caught in it, and I don't let the weather forecast affect my decision on whether or not to ride-mainly because that has screwed me numerous times. It will be calling for rain, but it is dry in the morning. Invariably on those occasions, it is like 70 degrees and sunny when I get off work... If I dont ride I am grumpy most of the day, and pissed when I get off and see how perfect it is outside! So my plan is to ride to work unless I cannot bear the start weather, or unless I have to be somewhere after work and dont have time to change.

Already regretting

Today is one of those borderline days where I probably could ride to work. There is not much rain, but I have an excuse...I have to pick up something thay will not fit on the scoot. *sigh* its still a bummer.

Hot Hands

These chemical hand warmers are definetly not the $100 heated grips or gloves that some folks use, but they seem to work ok. It was in the 20's this morning and I felt comfortable enough for my meager 20 minute commute. The cool thing I learned is if you take the reactant, air, out of the equation, it puts the heating into stasis, and so I can probably use these one or possibly two weeks!

Weekend ride to Madison, Indiana

Our ride left from Donut Kastle on Lyndon Lane. We had a good group show up to ride to Madison. I had some routing issues and missed a decent chunk, but Ralph was able to lead us on his MP3 when I couldn't find a way that was suitable to everyone. I had a pretty good time overall and we got pie when we made it back into Louisville!

Donut Castle

We are hanging out at Donut Kastle, getting ready to ride!

Nice Ride Tomorrow

I have organized a nice ride tomorrow. We're taking some back roads
up to Madison, Indiana on the Kentucky side of the Ohio River. We're
going to stop for lunch at a sandwich shop, then come back through
Clifty Falls State Park and on down the Indiana side of the Ohio. It
is supposed to be near perfect temperature and weather. So far I have
a couple folks confirmed and a few more who may or may not show up. I
hope to see a good crew. We are meeting at 930AM at Doughnut Kastle
near the corner of New Lagrange Road and Lyndon Lane.

Gas Mileage

I ride my scooter pretty hard. As a result it doesn't get the 50+mpg
that it says it should get on Yamaha's web site. Plus I am a big guy
and ride with a passenger sometimes. I get about 42-44 miles per
gallon. I was pretty bummed about this until I started doing some
math. Today gas runs about $2.75 or so per gallon. My Oldmobile
Alero gets really close to about 20-21 miles per gallon.

If you figure that I'm riding right now 11,000+ miles, and by February
next year (with just commuting and riding for fun on some weekends) I
will have around 15K. That gives you a rough figure of about $1000 I
will save in this past year by taking my scooter instead of my car.
Perhaps I should get and SUV as my 'second' vehicle so I could save
EVEN MORE money!!

Gunge on My Stuff

This summer a couple times, I used Armor-all to do the black plastic on my scoot.  The only place where I ran into any trouble was the handlebar plastic.  I has developed some whitish gunge or oxidation which I think is a result of the Armor-all.  I asked around a couple forums and multiple folks recommended Mother's Back to Black.  I researched it on Amazon and it got mostly really good feedback.  I figure I'm not going to bother with that this year and I will just hit it really good this summer when it warms up, but I think I might give the stuff a try.  The best advice I can see it to make sure you follow the directions to the letter or it will run in the first rain.

Motor Scooter Parking Only!

The place where they had scooter-only parking was ValuMarket in Mid City Mall in the Highlands. It looks really nice and is up front next to the handicapped parking spots. Finally helping out the earth pays off a little! I saw this when I stopped to pick up a few things after the ride on Saturday with Ralph. Kat pointed it out to me or I would have missed it! I wrote an email to corporate to see if they plan this sort of thing with the other locations also. ValuMarket rocks, and they have my customer loyalty!

Reserved Scooter Parking

Wouldn't you know the Highlands would be the first area in Louisville to have dedicated scooter parking!

Objects in your mirror...

Take note, and please comply.  The life you save could be mine!

 

Suzuki Fuel-cell Scooter...

The Burgman 125 Hydrogen fuel cell scooter sounds still non-practical,
but it is nice to see companies still moving forward and trying to get
away from so much fossil fuels.

Full article is : http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20091023/176757/

The Jokester

This is my buddy Ralph. He has a Piaggio MP3...its looks like a scooter with training wheels in front...really cool machine. Well the other day I got off work and I am stopped at a stoplight. I pump my breaks at stops so it draws attention from cars. I am at a complete stop, and I feel this *thump*! I immediately think "Some stupid cager wasn't paying attention and just tapped me!" I was pretty pissed...so I turn around and there is Ralph laughing his ass off!! I gave him the appropriate greeting (wave with special finger, and a "nice to see you" that started with "F***!!!") After he got his laughs out and I checked to make sure there was no extra Fruit in my Looms, we left as the light turned green. Its like two days later and now I can laugh (a little!) about it. Watch out for this tire-kicking jokester!

Oil change, ride & 11K

I met Vince over at Skyline Chili for lunch. We both needed to do oil changes today, and he was nice enough to volunteer his garage. We went to Walmart after lunch to get oil. I got two quarts of Mobil 1 full synthetic oil 10W30. We went back to his garage and did our oil changes. About when we were done he had some folks coming over to look at his Honda Reflex, which he is selling for a steal at like $2200. While he was showing the bike, my friend Jeremy called to see what I was doing. The three of us ended up going on a ride out toward Grundy that Jeremy had routed. It was a good ride with perfect weather (only a little cold) and I tipped 11,000 on my odometer. That puts me really close to the 20K mile mark! Back in town we stopped at TK's pub and had some bacon cheddar fries, and a beer. By this time it was dark, and I headed for the barn. ;o) It was a really good fall day.

Weekend coming up

I need to do my oil change this weekend, but the weather looks good,
so I hope I get to ride!! I don't have the kids this weekend, and
have not a lot going on.

Seat Cushion

One of the things I've done recently is to work on a custom seat
cushion. My friend Kathy, who is good at sewing, had some durable
black polyester material. Together we made a basic blueprint of my
stock Majesty seat and adjusted it to cover the area where I sit (my
arse is big, but not as big as the ENTIRE seat...). Next, she sewed
together a basic pocket-like sleeve where I could stuff various
materials to see what works best. The first attempt, which was
slightly more comfortable than the stock consisted of 3 layers. The
base was closed-cell foam (they blue mat used to put on the ground
under your sleeping bag). The center was your basic foam rubber. The
top layer was another layer of the closed-cell foam. As I said, this
method will allow me to try different materials to see how they
perform before I turn the pad into a finished product. If you have
any suggestions, please let me know. I have about 3-4 inches to play
with. I am thinking about trying some stiffer foam rubber, memory
foam, sponge, etc. I think I will keep the closed-cell foam base as
that seems to work pretty good. When the pad is all done and glued
together, I carve/bezel it down with an electric knife (yes, in this
case, it is my turkey-knife) which seems to work very well for this
job.

Saturday ride-forgot to mention the distilleries!!

I forgot to mention this...

 

We rode by at least two seperate distilleries on Saturday. I'm quite sure I smelled Barton just throught Bardstown on 31E...  Not my favorite, but drinkable and there is some in my cupboard right now.

Overcoming scooter stigma?!?!? Yeah, ok...

I started to be annoyed at this web article by Will Johnson, but ended up liking it.  In his article Johnson states such facts as...

 

"I understand scooters aren't the sexiest vehicles ever." of which I would have to disagree.  Lois is about as sleek a vehicle as you'd ever see...curves and everything, man.

"They just don't have that badass quality motorcycles do."  True here, I just can't bring myself to care about it.  I guess it's what you can do with a little scooter that is much more difficult on a 'big-boy bike' that makes me all meh inside about bigger bikes.

"One problem is scooters make you look fat." This statement is heavily moderated by the size scooter you buy.  You have to get one that doesn't make your ass look big (i.e. a 300# guy on a 50cc just looks silly.  Put him on a Honda Silverwing instead...)

"If your parents are too stingy to buy you a Honda Civic, chances are they can afford a little Yamaha Jog." Man, this could be me in 6 years!"

"I can comfortably fit a second person on the back. It works, because I can offer someone a ride home from a party but there's no way I'll be swamped by a crowd of party-goers looking for a designated driver." This is the type of think that makes a scooter a smart vehicle...a thinking-man's motorbike.

"Scooters may not have the same sexual kick a motorcycle does when you pick up a girl for a date, but she still spends the trip hugging you from behind." You hit the nail on the head, Johnson.

"Rain sucks on a scooter, though..." One word.  Gear.  Learn it, love it, live it.

"Seriously, you should give it a shot."  Unanimous agreement!!!

Full article can be viewed here:  http://www.martlet.ca/article/20041-overcoming-scooter-stigma

Bozo & The Victory Vision

My buddy Steve sent this picture to me.  I think it is too funny!

 

Ended up in New Albany

Kat and I ended our short ride this weekend in New Albany at Honey Cream doughnuts. It was a bad-for-you end to an otherwise ok day. I got about 47mpg riding 2-up on my 2008 Yamaha Majesty. That is not really that bad!

Rural Kentuckiana Toilets

This is the 2nd time I have been to a little podunk town in either Kentucky or Indiana on my scooter, and the public restroom has a sign asking people not to throw (assumedly TOILET) paper into the toilet. Putting human waste in a trash can makes me a little creeped out. I am not generally a "germy" person, but I would not be able to sit on the throne in a place like this!!!

Saturday ride-gasoline clothes iron!

Sometimes you see something in an antique store that you think is cool. Now I would never care to own a gasoline-powered clothes iron, but think about it...it is wireless...

Riding around Kentuckiana has its perks. You can see interesting architecture (and not all old barns and feed stores!), you can find good food (if you keep your mind open), and the land is pretty enough to make it truly beautiful...even on a gray day like Saturday.

Saturday ride-Cool buildings

After lunch we rode around Kentucky a bit more then went across the bridge that goes from Brandenburg over into Mauckport, Indiana.  We rode out toward the Hoosier National Forest and stopped at an old barn converted into an antique store.  That's where I saw this cool gasoline-powered clothes iron.  We saw a couple of tiny rural post offices and a church with painted-looking stained glass windows.  The weather held out all day, but it was cool, and also cloudy until about 5pm when it was time to "head for the barn".  We only encountered just a little rain before noon, but it wasn't bad enough to pull off.

Saturday ride-Custer, KY

On Saturday, Kathy and I took a short ride.  We rode out towards Hardinsburg, KY visiting a couple of those old buildings I like.  We stopped in Custer, Kentucky for lunch at The Feed Barn which is really just a deli-counter inside the Custer General Store.

Rain

I got stuck riding in the rain tonight. It was no big deal. This time I took the time to put on my gear, and I kept about 95% dry. I think between the waterproof liner for my jacket and the Colorado Chaps, I was comfortable and had no difficulty making the two stops I had to make on the way home. Thats my 2¢.

Offroad Majesty

After the 13th, I feel like I need this emblem from a jeep on the side of my YP400...

Dye from Motoboss gloves

This is the 2nd time I have been in the rain with my newish Motoboss gloves ($14.99 at Cycle Gear on sale). Both times the dye has come off badly on my hands...so bad that when I am done, I can wring black water out of them. If I could just keep them dry, they would be good gloves. On the way home from the "ride" which was only about 4 miles long due to weather, I got completely soaked to the bone. I stopped at a bank drive through to stow my GPS from out of the Aquabox, and take my phone out of the semi-waterproof jacket pocket. I also took my mp3 player out of its baggie and put it away while I was under cover. Everything but me was protected from water so it worked out well.

Tuesday night ride

I'm going to be leaving in about an hour for the Louisville Scooter
Group Tuesday night ride. We ride about every Tuesday in good
weather. It calls for some possible rain, so I hope that holds out.

I just found a place that makes a little icon thing of "places I've
been" so I filled in my states! It looks pretty blank to me right
now, but I hope to check one or two more off before good riding
weather is done.

This weekend I might take a day ride just me (and perhaps Kathy as
passenger) on a little run around Kentuckiana scooter ing around to
some of those general stores and old country stores you see around. I
have been to several, like Rabbit Hash General Store, the Ole Country
Store in Sulphur, Laconia General Store, etc. There was even this
little gas station in Bloomfield which is completely modern, but they
have a little bench area to the left of the registers where a farmer
or hunter can sit and drink a cup of coffee. They didn't have a wood
burning stove, a checker game, or an old dog laying on the floor, but
it was still warm and welcome.

More pictures from the Dragon

These are from a company that just sets up in a turn and takes shots.

http://www.photoreflect.com/PR3/AlbumSlideshow.aspx?a=624508

You can see the guy who had the eagle paintjob, and Vince leaning in
hard and waving for the camera.

Vince's Pictures

Here's my friend Vince's pictures of the weekend:

http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=tail%20of%20the%20dragon%20trip&w=33477989%40N05

He got some really great shots...and funny stuff like me feeding
peanuts to the chickens!

Kathy the Christmas tree

It got much worse for her than this, but you get (no pun intended) the picture...

Burgman/Dragon Rally

This past weekend was really good. My friend Vince and I rode to
Vonore, TN to the Burgman/Dragon rally. The ride up was fairly
uneventful though it took us from 7am to 5pm to get there with no long
stops. We got some good country lanes and even a few gravel roads
that were not too bad. The meeting was at 7pm at the Countryside
Restaurant. They had good food reasonably priced. Vince went to his
hotel after that and I stayed with my friend Kathy in Knoxville.

Meetup for the big ride on Saturday was at the Grand Vista Hotel in
Vonore. Kathy came along in her Dodge. We left at 9am and rode all
round the Smoky mountains, especially the big-attraction routes of
SR-165 known as the Cherohala Skyway (a very scenic road with lots of
pull-offs for pictures) and the biggie (for me) US-129 aka "The
Dragon".

On the way home we ran up into Virginia, for no other reason than just
to say we've been there. We took US-421 off and on from Virginia into
Kentucky (then further on in toward Berea) and it is a great ride. At
one point on the way back, we found a great little side road that went
to gravel, then finally into a pay-lake. At the pay lake, the GPS
routed me out onto a dirt path. There was very little gravel, just
mainly brown creek-rock! I hit a good sized rut in the road and got
stuck. Vince helped me get the bike out and it was either this rut or
another like it that tore up my front fender. It is loose, but not
really broken. Some tabs are broken on the inside and should be an
easy fix. I didn't find this out until Midway, KY when we pulled off
to fuel.

Another thing is somewhere along 421, I saw a cool mountain spring
coming out the side of a hill. I stopped and got a drink. I also
filled the two plastic bottles I had with it to take home to the kids.
There were lots of cool sights seen this weekend, and good roads
(except for the dirt motorcross track we ended up on!).

Pictures here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/the1weasel/BurgmanDragonRally09?feat=directlink

The Prize

Too tired to tell all the stories right now. Just wanted to show the reason I did The Dragon...its all about the patches, pins and THE STICKER!!!

Heading thru VA

Virginia

The Dragon has been slain

it was an awesome, exciting, adrenaline rush of a ride.

Deals gap

Getting ready to ride the dragon

Elevation!

Kings of the mountain!

On the Skyway

Cool!

Wolf creek dam, lake cumberland

We are heading toward montecello around lake cumberland.

In Daniel Boone National Forest

Stopped for gas at Roger New Grocery on 92 in DBNF

Mannsville, KY

Quick break...

In Tn

Russell springs, KY

In russel springs ky...break while rain. We came thru a creek that had almost a foot of water. I got Vince on video!!!

Bardstown, KY

I'm freezing. Gas and chaps!

Leaving Louisville

Olympia Gel Gloves Dead

My summer weight gloves...Olympia gels, were getting nappy on the inside, so I decided to wash them. When I looked at them fully dry last night both gloves had developed tears between wrist and palm. They are trashed. I did not see them come out like this. I wonder if drying stressed the leather. I am officially disappointed in the durability, but they were still the most comfortable gloves I have ever ridden in.